HOME HYPERLINKFORUM HYPERLINKCDR HYPERLINKSUB-SYTEM HYPERLINKHARDWARE HYPERLINKHOW_TO'S HYPERLINKLINKS HYPERLINK

Tricks and Secrets for Successful CD Burning CDR  Burning CDRW Burning, Burning Issues, CDR, CDRW, CD Burning forum, burningissues for Burning & copying copy protected CD's, CD burners, CD writing, CD CDR CDRW Burning

- tries -

COASTER-INTERRUPTUS

Generic [MIRAI Retail kit] SANYO CRD-BP4-M 16/10/40 "burnproof" SCSI-3

PAGE4 

 

DAE Performance: 

[at least five runs each - bar Disk#3 - on two samples of the BP4]

We tried some of the better audio-extraction applications: CDDAE, Feurio, & EAC on three pressed media: #1 - new; 70 minutes; #2 - slightly [ie normally] scratched; & #3 - seriously damaged - both scratched & with degraded internal reflectivity. All were clean. 

With reference to our read-speed tests, it's worth noting that Feurio, after an exhaustive series of speed-step runs, diagnosed the drives' basic read-performance as:

   

The BP4 read Disk #1 at 23.5x average [max 32x] using both CDDAE & Feurio; 6x using EAC in secure mode. All extractions were of very good quality - 97% average with EAC.

Disk #2 failed in CDDAE, was extracted with good quality by Feurio,  & was [eventually] extracted with very good quality - & CRC match - using EAC.

Disk #3 failed in CDDAE & Feurio; & the first track alone took over 8 hours to extract using EAC with 82% quality.

As a comparison, EAC with the 40TSi extracted all of Disk #3 in just over 5 hours at track-qualities between 86% & 94%. 

DAE features:

The desirable hardware features for DAE are: CD-DA Accurate Stream, no caching of audio data, & C2 error-pointer reporting. 

EAC - the DAE application of choice, especially when dealing with tricky media - works optimally when set to "secure" mode, using a reader with these three capabilities. The BP4 has the first two; but there's a gap between the C2-error capabilities the BP4 returns to inquiry . . . 

FireBurner: Feurio:

 . . . & those it has in fact:

EAC tested for C2 error-reporting without success, & neither Feurio nor EAC would work with C2-reporting enabled.

In very broad terms: C2 errors are visible - scratch or fingermark sized, & C1 errors down around the scale where 'burnproof' plays:  a pressed CD won't pass quality-control with C2 errors; but may well have a few C1 errors. Where a CD-reader reports information it receives from C2-error pointers, it gives both data as to the global & local condition of the CD - whether & where it's scratched - & to what degree & where intense analysis using both C2 & C1 is or has been required.

Without C2 error-reporting enabled, EAC is very slow indeed extracting in secure test & copy mode from damaged disks. "Slow" [we're not joking] can = days. C2-reporting also helps both Feurio & EAC extract to their highest quality - see the Feurio FAQ for more detail.

We tried other DAE applications; but the best real-world performance overall with the BP4 came when using Feurio - the only application giving us any confidence it & the BP4 might cope briskly with a visible light scratch or two.

DAE conclusion:

All-in-all we felt the BP4 was, by current standards, good for DAE from clean media; & could be developed to be truly competent if C2-error-pointer reporting was fully implemented. 

The above screenshots show that inquiries to both FireBurner & Feurio reported the BP4 could read both data & audio sub-codes - though, again, Feurio would not run with these apparent capabilities enabled . . .  

 . . . which brings us to . . .

 

Protected-disk copying: 

Tested at least five times each on two samples of the BP4 f/w 4.31 using protected PSX, Nero 5.x OEM distribution disk,  & SafeDisk1

The latest firmware for this [& other] Sanyo burners encouragingly states:

. . . . & the helpfile for the latest [3.x] version of CloneCD replaces the discouraging verdict of an earlier version of CloneCD [2.8.4.3] on performance using previous firmwares  . . . 

 . . . . with better, indeed the best, news:

Other applications capable of reading beyond RAW 2352 to some degree - BlindRead, Nero, & Vob Instant Disc/Copy - would not provide consistent results when reading using the BP4. Occasionally, it appeared one or other of these applications recognised the BP4 as capable of reading +16 or +96; but all disappointed in practice. 

A promising application for full use of the BP4's capabilities  appears to be FireBurner2.x - either with 2448 mode track-images ripped using FireBurner1.06, or using the upcoming FireRipper. FireBurner2.x is in fast-developing beta: the present beta3 is stable; but does not yet accept mode[s] 2368 & 2448 image-files.

You need a reader & writer both capable of RAW+16 or [ideally] RAW+96 to backup CD's protected by these [& other] common techniques: 

SecureROM; ProtectCD; PSX protections; Dummy Files

SafeDisc1-protected CD's are different; in principle requiring only accurate reading of good sectors & accurate recognition of bad sectors. 

Normally; either CloneCD - set to fast-error-skip - or BlindRead - set to 'nibble' - can backup SafeDisc1 quite reliably; however we only had reliable results at endurable speeds with the BP4 using CloneCD 3.x - this appears to have a new & better read-engine for the BP4's hardware - not software, which is faster - error-skip. 

Nero v Nero:

As a last test with the small sample of protections to hand; we tried the usual smart-Alec routine of seeing whether the default application [Nero 5.x OEM] would make a backup of its own distribution-disk.

This disk has a combination of false modes & false-gaps fronted by a false TOC, & is a challenge to deconstruct correctly into its component tracks: however, we felt that Nero would of course be able to exploit the RAW read/write capabilities of the BP4, & make a brute-force copy.

Sadly, the BP4 could not read this disk in any settings available through Nero - including those to force Nero's version of RAW reading. 

On a happier note: the 40TSi & BP4 used together with Nero made perfect RAW on-the-fly copies of this disk at 12x, evidence of the BP4's performance at . . . .  

Protected-disk-write:

It does it all. There's actually little more to say: the BP4 wrote all data we provided it with in all modes at all speeds.

Protected-disk conclusion: 

The BP4 at present is reliably effective making backup copies of most protected disks ONLY when using CloneCD 3.x & firmware 4.31

Using CloneCD 3.x, the CRD-BP4 f/w 4.31 used alone or with the 40TSi made perfect copies of any of the few protections we tried. Please note that the BP4 - like the vast majority of burners, in particular those based on Sanyo silicon - does not have the EFM-code writing abilities required to backup SafeDisk2-protected CD's to be read-device independent.

We were surprised that protected-disk-read performance with the supplied application [Nero] was as ineffective as with the many applications not yet provided with full driver support for the BP4's full range of RAW capabilities. 

 

Write performance: 

The BP4's read-performance, when tested, falls slightly below the specification & our expectations: the write performace doesn't - it's exactly as specified: SAO,TAO,DAO . . . all the way to DAO RAW+96 . . . it all worked.

At 16x, yes, it takes just over 5 minutes to write a full 650Mb CD; & on our dual-CPU test-system running Windows 2000 we found it next to impossible to get BURN-proof to kick in, unless running a couple of instances of a CPU stress-test. We couldn't make a coaster.

We had good results with all media used; but would recommend visiting Sanyo's tested media page

 

The competition:

16x SCSI-burners are thin on the ground: Yamaha have the [unpleasantly noisy] 2100S - a faster all-round reader, but inferior - & non-'burnproof' - writer, especially of HSRW media: in the next month or so they'll release a 20/10/40 burnproof-equivalent model using the Oak LSI. 

Plextor are reliably rumoured to be very near to releasing a SCSI-version of their splendid 16/10/40 'burnproof' model: this is likely to be a near-identical writer & phenomenally good DAE reader - roughly as good as their 40TSi; snags are expense - & that in the US it'll be packaged with worthless Adaptec software [lucky Europeans get WinOnCD3.8OEM].

16x BURN-proof SCSI-models more - er - intimately related to the Mirai CDR-BP4-M include the Waitec 'T-Rex'; the Nimichen/Brainwave CRD-BP4-N ['Generic'; kit comes with Nero; 4.31 firmware]; & the Iodata CDRW-SB1610B [many BP4/1400 variants, including FireWire & USB] - there are doubtless others. 

There are, of course, many 16/10/40 BURN-proof IDE/ATAPI models very closely related to the OEM Sanyo BP1400: a good clue to kinship is whether the firmware version number - "5.31" [say] - is similar to a recent Sanyo firmware number.

The future:

It is possible the BP4 & related model's DAE performance may be improved by a major firmware revision: we have reported the C2 pointer issue to Mirai, who are pro-active in encouraging Sanyo to focus their product development. 

The present:

At present, many users - not just the demanding - will want & need a first-class SCSI CD-reader like the Plextor 40TSi to complete Mirai's BP4  package & balance & unleash its fine performance as a writer. 

Given the fine value of the Mirai kit, & the profound desirability of all-SCSI CD-device chains, this is a practical - if noticeable - extra investment: such a combination represents the current state-of-the-art in CD read/write performance & will make a tempting alternative to the Plextor 16/10/40 SCSI-burner - at its traditionally handsome price when & if released.

At the time of writing, the Mirai CRD-BP4-N represents a pretty irresistible standalone alternative to the Plextor PX-W1210S BURN-proof SCSI 12-speed; the buyer must balance the BP4's second-generation BURN-proof, faster writing & much better value against the Plextor's DAE read-quality . . . . & a deserved good name for continued development & first-rate support.

Other opinions: 

We didn't test the BP4 with any UDF application - InCD, DirectCD, InstantCD etc - if these dubiously reliable applications are of use to you, cdrinfo has an early-firmware BP4/1400 preview with some InCDv1.70 tests

Storagereview doubtless will soon provide a BP4 review with many, many numbers &  "performance" with Adaptec software. 

The Feurio website has just now added accurate data on the BP4's DAE qualities & write capabilities - typically, this went up just after we had completed 130 hours of test-runs.

Burningissues' verdict? . . . 

 . . . er . . . no pompous faffing about with stars or marks out of 10: we bought one [at a small trade discount] - after testing an evaluation sample & with full knowledge of alternative & upcoming burners. 

Sweet 16 . . . 

. . . . x, on the fly

<<< Page 1: << Page 2: < Page 3:
TestSystem & included SCSI-card >


Copyright April 2001 Stephen Hoar for Burning Issues - all rights reserved: with thanks to James & Simon at AGP

 

Burning Issues burning issues CDR cdr cdrw CDRW CD copying forum burningissues copying copy protected burning CD burners CD-burners CD writing CD-writing
Home Forum CDR Sub-System Hardware How-To's Links

Burning Issues cdr cdrw CDRW forum burningissues copying copy protected burners CD writing CDR hardware CDR software applications utilities CloneCD Clone CDRWin WinOnCD Nero App Nero EasyCD DiskJuggler PrimoCD BlindRead BlindWrite how-to's speed tests cooling methods walk-throughs work-arounds step by step security Internet net discussion forum questions golden orb Molex 840 cooler coolers winoncd 3.7 golden orb 840 molex 800 molex840 molex800 cd-burners cd-writing cd-readers clonecd clone cdrwin Winoncd winoncd-pe nero burning app easycd ezcd Diskjuggler diskjuggler Primocd primocd blindread Blindwrite how tos How-tos walk throughs work arounds Security internet Net Discussion forum Burning problems Golden orb c/w C/W forums Hardware reviews hardware reviews software reviews Software Burning Issues cdr cdrw CDRW forum burningissues copying copy protected burners CD writing CDR hardware CDR software applications utilities CloneCD Clone CDRWin WinOnCD Nero App Nero EasyCD DiskJuggler PrimoCD BlindRead BlindWrite how-to's speed tests cooling methods walk-throughs work-arounds step by step security Internet net discussion forum questions golden orb Molex 840 cooler coolers winoncd 3.7 golden orb 840 molex 800 molex840 molex800 cd-burners cd-writing cd-readers clonecd clone cdrwin Winoncd winoncd-pe nero burning app easycd ezcd Diskjuggler diskjuggler Primocd primocd blindread Blindwrite how tos How-tos walk throughs work arounds Security internet Net Discussion forum Burning problems Golden orb c/w C/W forums Hardware reviews hardware reviews software reviews Software